I am sure I am going to hit a nerve with some people with this passage but it is something that I have been reading about and that I feel strongly about.
1 Timothy 2:11-15
11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authourity over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctify with self-restraint.
Let me give you a little background as to why this even came up. We are currently reading, "Passionate Housewives Desperate for God" for our ladies' book club. This month's topic is feminism. Well, really the whole book sort of deals with this issue but lately the feminism has been a very big part of my thinking, reading, and personal life. At the same time I am reading this, it is something that has come up in conversation with several of my friends and family.
My husband and I have had the "quiet" discussion and I know where he and I stand. I have read many verses and passages and I feel it is imperitive that I remain quiet during a worship service at church. Once my husband, who is the pastor, has called us to worship, I no longer say anything. That applies if I am not at my home church as well. It also applies if we are counseling or speaking among men. I try not to address the men of the group and only speak to my husband. I don't always follow this rule, as I am human and forget. But, God has made me more aware of my surroundings and His teachings.
If we are in our home, having a family time per se, then that no longer applies. I think the word "quiet" doesn't always mean that I do not have the approval or permission to speak. It just means that I am to have a "meek and quiet spirit" that is willing and open to instruction. Our family also believes that during our Equipping Hour at church all are allowed to speak- men, women, and children. It is no longer a "worship" type setting and it is more of a "family time" atmosphere, so we feel that it is OK.
Can I ask my readers a question? If a woman is supposed to be quiet and the scriptures teach that we are not to have authority over men, would you allow a woman to sing a solo? Singing a solo is a form of leadership, maybe even a form of teaching. If there are men in the audience or congregation, then do you think it's right to "lead" them while she sings? What about women or ladies' who play an instrument to accompany the singing? At what point is it a no-no? Where do you draw the line? Leave a comment and give me your thoughts on it, if you like.
As I mentioned earlier, this idea of feminism is coming up quite often. I learned early on that feminism in the McCrory household was not going to fly. Mr. David McCrory would rule our house. Whether it was right or wrong (in my mind at least), he was the spiritual leader of our household. I had to learn the hard way because my mother ruled our house- and tried to rule the McCrory household when she was here. She had to learn the hard way, that David was the spiritual leader of our household and I was his helper. If he said we did or did not do it, then so let it be done. It work(s) for our home, and it's a biblical concept- so we will continue to do what we feel is in accordance to the Lord's will. Now, we are not perfect in these roles! Far from it! But, we do the best we can.
I remember coming into my marriage with the "You-are-not-going-to-tell-me-what-to-do" mentality. I was the boss of me and you (or God) were not going to be my authority. God quickly showed me the error of my ways. Truth be told, I drug my feet, 3 feet deep, leaving quite a trail I'm sure! I didn't like giving up MY authority to God or anyone else. Once I allowed God into my life, it and my marriage began to be more in line with the scriptures. And it should as that's how God designed it. He gave us the example of marriage to show us the image of Christ and his willingness to give up His life for ours. How Great Thou Art!
Interesting article. I would not know where to draw the line, at all. While I agree that a woman should not teach a man or have authority over him, I'm not sure that I would see singing as trying to teach or exercise authority over men (or anybody). Perhaps the lyrics are edifying or encouraging in an instructional kind of way, but does a woman's singing of such lyrics mean that she's teaching or exerting authority over men?
ReplyDeleteWhat about hymns that were written by women; should they only be sung for women? So, now the line gets even blurrier. What about Christian books written by women authors; should only women read them? How about Christian websites, blogs, etc. that are written by women? Where does one draw the line? Or to be more specific, what would be considered teaching, preaching, or exhibiting authority over men? Should I turn my blog site pink, for women only? Now I won't rest until I know!
Sorry for being so wordy. I hope to find more answers.
After Further Thoughts on the Matter:
ReplyDeleteI think that Paul was instructing Timothy in formal occasions of worship. And, with that, a woman's contributions to the church (books, blogging, etc) are appropriate outside of the worship service. Even a hymn written by a woman can be sung within the worship service as long as it is being lead by a man. These verses would then apply only to formal worship occasions and women could certainly participate in other less formal times of worship and fellowship, such as a bible study or family worship times. This also seems to be in line with Paul's instructions to the Corinthians (1 Cor. 14:34-35). There, he exhorts women to be silent in the church, which I also believe speaks specifically to leading or teaching during the worship service. This view doesn't minimize the role of women in the life of the church but allows them to use their gifts and abilities in accordance to God's word.
"I think that Paul was instructing Timothy in formal occasions of worship." I realized that as soon as I pushed the 'submit' button, yet I still have a hard time defining or drawing a solid line around 'formal worship'. Where does it begin or end?
ReplyDeleteWould it be appropriate for women to sing solos during 'formal worship' if they were asked (and quietly, in full submission agreed to), instructed, led or directed by a man? Also, might women lead bible studies for both men and women outside formal worship settings? What about teaching Sunday school, which is 'in church' yet not during formal worship service?
Does the command to quietly receive instruction and not to teach or exercise authority over men only apply during worship? When Paul speaks of 'the church', are we correct to assume that it correspond with our present day 'formal worship'?
Thank you very much for your time and patience!
Hi Petra,
ReplyDeleteLet me jump in and try to help unravel some of this for you. For example, you ask;
"I still have a hard time defining or drawing a solid line around 'formal worship'. Where does it begin or end?"
The formal occasion for worship begins with a 'call to worship'. The minister will usually read a portion of the Scriptures (I usually use a Psalm) that summons the Lord's people together to worship Him. It ends after the 'benediction', when the congregation is dismissed with God's blessing upon them.
You ask, "Would it be appropriate for women to sing solos during 'formal worship' if they were asked (and quietly, in full submission agreed to), instructed, led or directed by a man?"
I think the very nature of a 'solo' implies it is not led by another, but that the person is acting (or singing) alone. I believe women can and should partcipate in the corporate functions of the church like singing, saying 'amen' after a prayer, responsive readings, etc. because all of these should be led by a male, usually the pastor but not always, during a service.
The notion that a woman would be asked to sing a solo in a church indicates that church would not understand these verses the way our church does.
"Also, might women lead bible studies for both men and women outside formal worship settings?"
I would say no, they shoudln't lead it, but if invited to do so, they should openly participate. In Paul's letter to Titus, he seems to indicate that women should teach women. That verse, along with the command for women not teaching or holding authority over men, tends to lean things in the direction of women not leading a "mixed" Bible study.
"What about teaching Sunday school, which is 'in church' yet not during formal worship service?"
We hold that women (ideally the older) should be teaching (the younger) women in the Word ala Tit. 2. Also we believe it is appropriate for women to instruct children in Sunday School type settings.
"Does the command to quietly receive instruction and not to teach or exercise authority over men only apply during worship?"
Strictly speaking yes. But outside of worship, women often teach men. A wife might teach a husband how to cook something, or how to correctly fold a shirt. But the spirit in which a woman finds herself instructing men can make or break the occasion.
"When Paul speaks of 'the church', are we correct to assume that it correspond with our present day 'formal worship'?"
Again, strictly speaking, yes. The context for Paul's letters typically indicate times of formal meeting as the Body of Christ for worship, i.e., "When you gather together..." (1 Cor. 11)
I pray this helps.
- David
Thank you kindly for your help! God bless!
ReplyDelete